The Apache is very well built, but ease of servicing may not have been a priority, as many maintenance tasks require a lot of labor. Parts support for the Geronimo mods is excellent. We saw little better during a workout in a Seneca III under a hot Florida sun. Another idiosyncrasy is the location of the gear lever on the right and the flap lever on the left of the center pedestal. One idiosyncrasy that will present itself to the transitioning pilot is the tendency of pre-1976 models to pitch up strenuously when flaps are lowered. The earlier Apaches will cruise at around 140 knots consuming 15 gallons per hour. The Geronimo conversion of the Apache ups the power to 180 HP a side, reworks much of the fuselage and turns the airplane into a reasonable performer on one engine. The E and F models have a nose extension with a fiberglass cap. By the end of the 1950s it was clear that the market wanted something bigger and faster out of Piper, and Piper wanted something that could compete in passenger and baggage space as well as performance, even though the Apache had gained a fifth seat in 1955. I’ve come to have a great deal of affection for the Aztec, even though it frequently seems to know how much money I have on hand and breaks something that costs that much. Depending on options, the early 23-150s have a useful load of 1,320 pounds and the later 23-250-F a load of 2,020 pounds. Originally designed in the 1950s by the Stinson Aircraft Company, Piper Aircraft manufactured the Apache … Apaches have generous loading options; most pilots can get away with filling four seats with full tanks and a little bit of baggage. Pre-1971 Aztecs tend to thwart the pilot’s best attempts at trimming and roam a bit in altitude. This design led to some unfavorable flight characteristics and so the aircraft was changed to a single-tail design and constructed with aluminum skin. Twins aren’t cheap to operate and the Piper PA-23 is no exception. With sales of the Apache 235 declining, Piper developed an improved version of this aircraft which introduced a 186kW O-540 engine and provided six-seat capacity. In 1960, Piper introduced the Aztec, a stretched PA-23 airframe with 250-HP Lycoming O-540-A1B5 engines and a larger tail with stabilator. Trim bezel panel from Piper Aztec. Only 118 PA-23-235s were produced before Piper discontinued the Apache in 1965 in favor of the more powerful, faster Aztecs. Newer, heavier Aztecs use up a bit more real estate, but not much: Figure on about 2000 feet to leave and less than 1600 feet to arrive over a 50-foot obstacle in an E or F model. The big-engined Piper Apache is faster but is a glutton for avgas. I figure on 7 hours to dry tanks. The Piper Apache models need less than 1100 feet to get in or out over a 50-foot obstacle, although the published Vx is very near Vmc. Above 15,000 feet the climb rate gets a little weak, but it gets up there. Piper Panel Upgrades. Diamond Aire (www.diamondaire.com) performs the Geronimo mod, and offers a number of other mods for the Apache-Aztec line including redesigned noses, dorsal fins, a speed-slope windshield, gap seals, vortex generators, tip tanks and inflatable door seals. Useful Load: 2,020 pounds 1960 1961 Chevy Apache Fender Spear Trim REAR MOLDING OEM … John is an avid backpacker, sailor, and photographer; follow his non-flying adventures on his website, by clicking the button below. The United States Navy and military forces in other countries also used it in small numbers. 1961 Apache PA-23 courtesy of Dirk Slotboom. In our opinion, the edge of the single-engine performance envelope on light-light twins—those with normally aspirated engines of less than 200 HP—is really too close to being unsafe for comfort. Also in 1962, Piper added a longer nose to the Aztec, housing a baggage compartment. Approved for Aztec, Apache & Geronimo aircraft, this one-piece design eliminates cockpit display clutter and is shock-mounted to isolate full panel. Landing Distance over 50’ obstacle: 1,585 feet I guess technically all three designations are correct with the official FAA designation for this aircraft being the Piper PA-23. Shop by category. One owner reported that he replaced some valves, hoses and fittings every year so that everything was changed over five to six years. It hung on through 1965, with a total production run of 114. Your email address will not be published. Fuel Capacity: 144 US gallons A few Piper Apache owners even remove the seat from the airplane, as it is virtually unusable and is just excess weight. The Piper PA-23, named Apache and later Aztec, is a four-to-six-seat twin-engined light aircraft aimed at the general aviation market. I routinely go into fields less than 3000 feet long, with obstacles. Pilots flying this modification have reported an increased useful load, better climb performance, increased cruise speed, lower fuel burn at cruise, and safer single-engine characteristics. The limit in turbo models is 4500 pounds. Case in point: when Cessna upgraded its 310, Piper countered by adding a fifth seat and bigger engines to its Apache, thus creating the PA-23-250 Aztec. The forum is a fantastic resource for parts and maintenance advice. It’s one of those aircraft where you can make a control input and then take your hands off the controls until you need to adjust heading, altitude, or speed again. Range: 680 NM My wife, starting with 100 hours of SEL time, earned her multi-engine and instrument ratings in the Aztec so our flying is almost always two pilots swapping legs. It also saved on insurance, as my carrier had a price break between five- and six-seat cabins. Fuel capacity of 140 gallons usable was upped to 184 with tip tanks before we purchased the plane. Some models of the gas-fired heater have maximum hours between overhaul limits, so a Hobbs meter on the heater is a good investment. The last model [ Click to read more… Each was all-metal and of semi-monocoque construction. If that engine quit, the pilot would need to give a hefty 30-50 pumps of the manual gear extension to get the wheels down. Aviation photos of Piper PA-23 Apache/Aztec aircraft shared by photographers from around the world The United States Navy and military forces in other countries also used it in small numbers. The Piper PA-23, named Apache and later Aztec, is a four-to-six-seat twin-engined light aircraft aimed at the general aviation market. If looking to purchase an Apache, I would seek out an aircraft that had the new style props installed. Our current Apache is a 1960 model with all of the Geronimo Mods. Figure about $275 per hour, wet, to run a normally-aspirated Aztec, based on 150 hours a year. Service Ceiling: 18,950 feet It was N4374P, the one in the 1961 Piper brochures, but not nearly so shiny when I got my hands on it ten years later. Originally designed in the 1950s by the Stinson Aircraft Company, Piper Aircraft manufactured the Apache and a more powerful version, the Aztec, in the United States from the 1950s to the 1980s. The gear and flaps are hydraulic, meaning that the aging system will provide the owner with the joy of tracing leaks on a regular basis. Earlier models came with only one pump on the left engine to operate landing gear and flaps. All rights reserved. Single engine performance in both the Apaches and Aztecs is pretty miserable compared to the Piper Seneca. The primary benefit of the change was a 300-pound boost in gross weight. Indeed, many owners do much of their own work under the supervision of IAs. We flight plan for 150 knots burning 18-20 GPH total. Beginning with the B-model Aztec, there are three full rows of seats and 150-pound capacity baggage compartments fore and aft. Owners of 150- and 160-HP Apaches report 135 to 145 knots on 16 GPH at 75 percent power. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The F model, as mentioned earlier, could also be fitted with 20-gallon internal tip tanks. The big changes in the PA-23 all happened in the early 1960s. Pilots do get these mixed up, and the latch that’s supposed to prevent inadvertent gear retraction doesn’t always work. The earliest versions of the Aztec differed only slightly in appearance from the Apache, although early Aztecs featured higher performance … With it came the tube-and-fabric Twin Stinson, with 125-HP engines and twin tails. All of these Apaches have the older round tail. The best thing about it is its load-carrying capability. The Aztec was a truck by comparison. So now we find ourselves in 1961 with the PA-23-160 Apache H and the PA-23-250 Aztec B being produced simultaneously. This four-seat aircraft entered production in 1954 as the PA-23 Apache. Maintaining a classic twin can quickly drain the wallet if an owner is not an A&P or actively involved with maintenance. This list of Piper Apache and Aztec ADs is provided as a service … Our Geronimo has a modern panel centered on the Garmin G500 driven by a GNS430W. We purchased our 1969 D Model Aztec in 2002. Maximum speeds for lowering gear and flaps in Apaches built before 1960 are a ridiculously low 109 and 87 knots, respectively. Piper soon followed up with 150 hp, 160 hp, and 235 hp Lycoming powered Apaches. This change in production was more or less the last time the PA-23 would undergo any major changes for the next twenty years of production. From the Aztec B to the Aztec F, there were some changes to instrument panels and controls, some slight modifications to wingtips and engine nacelles for better performance, and one more nose elongation in the Aztec E. A turbocharged model, the PA-23T-250 was also available for an extra $10,000 (the base price of a Piper Aztec E in 1971 was $70,000). Standard Empty Weight: 3,180 pounds Despite its flaws the PA-23 is one of those classics that will continue to be in demand for some time to come, most notably for its purchase price & performance combination. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Example, a PA 23-150 is a Apache with 150 HP engines, a PA 23-160 is a Apache with 160 HP engines. It went on sale in 1954. All Piper Apache 150s and 160s have one 36-gallon fuel bladder in each wing and many have an 18-gallon aux tank on each side, too. The Piper PA-23, named Apache and later Aztec, is a four-to-six-seat twin-engined light aircraft aimed at the general aviation market. Piper PA-23 Apache and Aztec: Piper light twins started with the purchase of the Stinson line way back in the early 1950s. The Piper Apache is largely relegated to the training function for those looking for cheap-to-fly time builder but the Piper Aztec remains one of general aviation’s stalwart twins and although it has high operating costs, it can be bought relatively cheaply. The purchase price includes excellent handling and as much as a ton of useful load. The Piper Aztec grew from the Piper Apache design, and the two aircraft share the same model numerical designation of PA-23 established during the original Apache certification. The last model to roll off of the Piper line in 1981 was the six-seat PA-23-250 Aztec F with 2 x 250 hp fuel-injected IO-540 … The steel tube frame is subject to corrosion, so inspect carefully, especially under the cabin. In the early 1950s, the major aircraft manufacturers that had survived the post-war boom and thud scrambled to come up with a light twin. Piper Apache Piper Apache Overview The PA 23-150 Apache hit the market in 1954, evolved to 160-hp engines in 1957, then leaped to 235 hp per side as simply a lower-powered version of its offspring, the 250-hp Aztec… Engine: 2 x fuel-injected Lycoming IO-540-C4B5 250 hp Is it a Piper Apache PA-23? I replaced it with a Cessna 210. (Airflow in the fuselage is from the tailcone forward.) Apaches continued to come off the line with the 150 hp engines with only minor modifications made to the airframe until 1958 when two notable events happened. John has been an aviation enthusiast since the age of ten. In a questionable attempt to resurrect sales of the Apache, Piper hung low-compression, 80-octane versions of the O-540 on the airplane in 1962, calling it the Apache 235. In the air, with everything working properly, the twins feel like big Cherokees, but with more responsive controls. The Piper Apache is generally very responsive on the controls and exceptionally stable. shipping: + $8.30 shipping . In this respect, the Piper Apache is no worse than more modern designs. WORLD'S PREMIER INDEPENDENT AVIATION NEWS RESOURCE. Wing Span: 37.2 feet We have consistently been informed that a good experience in owning an Apache or Aztec depends on having a thorough pre-purchase inspection and good initial and recurrent training. Max gross weight was 4800 pounds. Several ADs require repetitive inspections and work, and some are quite expensive. The first was the upgrade to the engines; 160 hp O-320-B engines were added to the Apache and designated the Apache E. This aircraft would undergo some other small modifications, including a slight increase to the cabin length and replacing the O-320-B engines with the O-320-B2B; this final designation was the PA-23-160 Apache H. The second event was the introduction of the Piper Aztec PA-23-250. What defines what is an Apache from an Aztec is the dash after PA 23. Owners also tend to be very picky about who maintains their airplanes. A positive rate of climb depends on perfect technique and on top of these demands, the pilot is presented with the specter of engine-out handling difficulties, such as the tendency to roll over towards the dead engine. Stall Speed: 59 knots, landing configuration The Aztec was also called the PA-27 in an effort to clear up this confusion between the two drastically different engine configurations. We cruise at 165 knots at 65 percent power, burning 25 GPH, rich of peak. Montana Diamond Aire is a FAA Approved PMA facility specializing in full STC d custom modifications for the Piper Apache, Aztec, and … The aircraft has hydraulic flaps and gear with manual pump and air bottle as back ups. Following all of this? It is faster, carries more and is easier to maintain. Maintenance is not user-friendly. The hydraulic lines and valves build up a varnish with time; figure on replacing everything over about a 10-year period. If you want two engines for those over-mountain, night, IFR flights, it is tough to find a more capable and forgiving airplane. The stabilator and stabilator-balance system were changed with the introduction of the F model, but Piper later switched again from external to internal balance weights after AD 79-26-1 targeted cracks and attachment problems. Takeoff Distance over 50’ obstacle: 1,980 feet Of course, single-engine performance was anemic, but the vast majority of our midwest flying left the terrain well below the Apache’s drift-down altitude. With such a variety of power, weight and age, a buyer can find a PA-23 to fit almost any budget. The fifth seat in Apaches and early Aztecs is relegated to the back of the cabin, where it takes up a lot of space in the 200-pound capacity baggage compartment. Length: 31.2 feet • Contact Norman Earle - MOTOPLANE PARTS, LLC, Owner - located Hastings, FL United States • Telephone: 386-689-0244 • Posted November 18, 2020 • Show all Ads posted by … Originally designed in the 1950s by the Stinson Aircraft Company, Piper Aircraft manufactured the Apache and a more powerful version, the Aztec… This video explains how Microsoft upped ante on graphics and aircraft interiors. Skip to main content. Piper Apache 235s and Piper Aztecs have two 36-gallon cells in each wing. In 1960, only 141 Apaches rolled off the line, compared with 363 Aztecs. Reports of adequacy of cabin heat vary, with one owner stating that his passengers had to wrap up in sleeping bags to stay warm during winter flights. The Apache 235 and Turbo Aztecs climb at about 220 FPM on one mill. My wife and I have had the pleasure of owning two different Apaches. The fat, high-lift airfoil has a lot to do with the PA-23’s docility and good low-speed performance, but it costs more than a few knots in speed. The Piper Apache, Aztec, Navajo, & Cheyenne v1.1.0 / 01 nov 19 / greg goebel * In the 1950s, the Piper company -- having made a success of its famous line of "Cub" light civil aircraft -- decided to get into the light twin business, introducing the "Apache" twin, which proved successful, and led to "Aztec" derivatives. The Piper Apache / Aztec was Piper Aircraft’s first twin-engine production aircraft and over 7,000 were produced over close to a thirty-year time span, with multiple variants over the years. I think the Twin Comanche is one of the best light twins in the GA fleet, but it isn't for multi-engine beginners. The PA-23 cabin is spacious and comfortable, with plenty of elbow, head and leg room. It’s likely, however, that a PA-23, either Apache or Aztec, bearing a used-car price tag has had quite a tough life, including use as a multi trainer or cargo-hauler and eventually retiring into neglect and disuse. Several panel styles include back-lighting or post-lighting, engine instrumentation and radio configuration options. Many, but not all, Apaches have been upgraded with dual alternators and vacuum pumps; avoid those that have not. Aztec/Apache Accidents: Other. Published climb rates are between 110-240 feet per minute, but most Apache pilots know that this is only realistic in optimal conditions. The plane is not that busy, but never turn down a copilot. The cabin is more passenger-friendly than the 310 or Baron. Keep the yoke well back to keep weight on the mains and retract the flaps right away. Horsepower: 160 Gross Weight: 3800 lbs Top Speed: 159 kts Empty Weight: 2230 lbs Cruise Speed: 150 kts Fuel Capacity: 72 gal Stall Speed (dirty): 53 kts Range: 616 nm Takeoff: Landing: Ground Roll: 1190 ft Ground Roll 750 ft: Over 50 ft obstacle: 1550 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 1360 ft Rate Of Climb: 1260 fpm Rate of Climb (One … Its fat, constant-chord wing allowed it to use the abundant short runways of the day but, with the chubby fuselage, kept cruise speeds leisurely. It is absolutely rock solid on an ILS. Limiting speeds in later models are a more manageable 130 and 109 knots. In 1959, 368 Apaches were built. We have found that a surprising number of owners are not aware of the limitation, so wing attach fittings should be a checklist item on a pre-buy inspection. The big-engined Piper Apache … This’ll cost you a few knots in cruise though, especially given the rest of the Apache’s overall short, chunky appearance. During the run of the Aztec C, the engine TBO went from 1200 to 2000 hours, a benefit retrofittable to the older engines with the installation of half-inch exhaust valves. Despite its flaws, the PA-23 is one of those classics that will continue to be in demand for some time to come, most notably for its purchase price & performance combination. Whelen LED Aircraft "TAXI LIGHT" (Whelen PAR 36, 4 1/2" Dia) FAA … Early Piper Aztecs require less than 1250 feet. Or PA-23 Aztec? “You can spend a fortune having a mechanic learn your systems,” one owner said. For example, Piper’s own PA-44 Seminole, a late-1970s design, has 180-HP engines and a useful load of about 1400 pounds. This airplane, the Aztec B, came with six seats, a pop-out emergency exit window and was available with optional fuel injection and AiResearch turbochargers. Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go? Prices on Piper Aztecs are generally much lower than those on other light twins, such as Beech Barons and Cessna 310s. PA 23 is a Piper's manufactures designation for both the Apache and the Aztec. It was, in fact, a design from the now-defunct Stinson Aircraft Company. Airworthiness Directives, Piper PA-23 ADs including PA-23, PA-23-160, PA-23-235 and PA-23-250. The fore and aft baggage compartments mean it’s easy to stay in CG. Other specs remained much the same, although single-engine performance actually suffered due to the higher allowable weight. The following year, the annual was under $2,000. If you catch it early, the fix is merely expensive. Just be careful – older Apaches can quickly drain the bank account if not actively maintained. 4570 TT, L/R Engine 401 since extensive overhaul Jan 2014 by JB Aircraft Engines including all new top end, cam & lifters, and refurbished crank cases by Divco ($57841). In 1961, Apache production had fallen to 28 airplanes. Top speed was 157 knots, with a published but optimistic cruise of 148 knots, while 135 to 140 knots proved to be more realistic. Otherwise, adding fluid overfills the system, leading to a very red airplane when the gear is retracted after takeoff. To check the level of the hydraulic fluid, the airplane must be up on jacks with the gear retracted and flaps extended. That task can take quite some time, leading many mechanics or owners to skip checking the oil screen. Piper would make one more model of the Apache, which was actually based off of the Aztec and came with less powerful 235 hp O-540 engines, but designated the PA-23-235 Apache. The Aztec is an extended and all the more effective advancement of the Apache controlled by two six chamber 185kw (250hp) O-540s, and Aztecs were initially conveyed from … The Cessna had the 310-HP Atlantic Aero IO-550 engine, flew faster than the Aztec on much less fuel (9 to 13 GPH depending on altitude) and carried a similar load. Passengers: five. Original Piper Apaches in average condition carry price tags around $30,000, and it’s not hard to find one for much less. A couple of years later Piper lengthened the nose of the Aztec slightly, added a sixth seat, and upgraded the engines to the fuel-injected IO-540s. Some insist it began production as the world’s largest flying sweet potato and evolved into Snoopy crouching as he waited for his supper. The more tapered nose allows only a 10-inch radar antenna, not a 12-inch. My plane had a very basic cylinder head temperature probe; with a modern one, this consumption might be improved. You truly can fill the seats, baggage and fuel (assuming your family all weigh about 150 pounds or less). With sales of the Apache 235 declining, Piper developed an improved version of this aircraft in 1960 which introduced a 250 hp / 186kW O-540 engine and provided six-seat capacity. The manual pitch trim control, by the way, is a large crank on the ceiling with a smaller crank (a knob in later models) inside it for yaw trim; both are very sensitive. In our airplane, 133 gallons of the 140-gallon main fuel load gets you to gross with the max cabin load. You can expect to replace a seal every year or so. $65.00. Met-Co-Aire (www.metcoaire.com) offers tip tanks that increase fuel capacity by 48 gallons as well as new wing tips, turbochargers can be had from Rajay (www.rayjayparts.com) and vortex generators from MicroAerodynamics (www.microaero.com). The Aztec … The Piper Apache and Piper Aztec: Birds of a Feather. © 2020 Aviation Publishing Group. The original Piper PA-23, the Apache, seemed almost round and had such modest powerplants that single-engine operation could be hazardous—just as with other twins with small engines. As we looked at the 100 most recent reports of accidents of the Piper Apache and Aztec series we were struck by the low number of runway loss of control (RLOC) accidents—an indication of airplanes with docile ground handling—and the relatively high percentage of fuel-related accidents. The Piper PA-23 Apache is a twin-engined four-seat touring aircraft produced by the US-American manufacturer Piper Aircraft Corporation.The PA-23 Aztec is an enlarged variant of the PA-23 Apache with five or … When getting on the brakes after landing, if you lower the nose as you would a 310 or Baron, you’ll just slide the tires because the wing is lifting and there’s no weight on the mains. I would also highly recommend an Apache owner join the Piper Apache Club run by John Lumly. Our first was a 1955 PA23-150 that had an updated panel and interior, but completely original airframe. Until then, Piper had been a builder of steel tube-and-fabric machines but had acquired the Stinson Division of Consolidated Vultee. Most of our flying is between 8000 and 10,000 feet. In 1966, the turbo option became a full-fledged model, with a standard oxygen system. Unlike the Baron or 310, it almost feels as if you point it in the right direction and fall asleep until time to flare. Starship Completes High-Altitude Test Flight, Explodes During Landing (Updated), Vaccine Passport: Stop Crying, Get Your Shot, Best of the Web: How Microsoft Flight Sim Recreated the Planet, Even A Numbskull Like Me Can Learn To Fly A Gyroplane, Top Letters And Comments, December 18, 2020, Unwanted Flight Test: The FAA’s 709 Ride, EAA Aviation Museum To Offer Webinar Series, WAI Announces 2021 Pioneer Hall Of Fame Inductees, Hill Helicopters Unveils New Turbine Engine, Canada Mandates 406 ELTs, Foreign Aircraft Need Beacon. A Piper Aztec may not be cheap to operate, but its an affordable buy. Look close and add up the upgrades. In naturally aspirated B through F models, any load above 4400 pounds must be fuel. The last model to roll off of the Piper line in 1981 was the six-seat PA-23-250 Aztec F with 2 x 250 hp fuel-injected IO-540 engines. The fat, high-lift airfoil has a lot to do with the PA-23’s docility and good low-speed performance, but it costs more than a few knots in speed. I bought into an E-model Aztec after discovering I couldn’t afford the twin I really wanted, a Cessna 310. The airplane short fields well. We called it the "Apathy", and I loved it. Beech and Aero Commander were first off the mark and Cessna was rumored to be coming out with one as well. Also, in 1965, Piper came out with a modification kit for Aztecs and Apache 235s, allowing quarter-flap deployment at 139 knots and half flaps at 122 knots. The Piper Apache is very forgiving for balance limitations. But for honest handling in a twin and reasonable single-engine performance, it’s one of the best out there. Everything else is pretty normal. If the left engine goes kaput, there’s a hand pump underneath the control console that requires 30 to 50 strokes to get the gear up or down, a significant challenge during a real emergency. 1500 hours later, we still find it to be a comfortable, stable, safe and reliable transport. Piper Twin Engine Parts; PA23 Apache, Aztec; Lighting; Filter by. The model Apache with 235 hp were now being called Aztecs. There simply isn’t enough horsepower available to produce anything but a barely flyable airplane. Up high, around 24,000 feet, a Turbo Aztec can sizzle along at 190 to 200 knots with fuel gushing at 30 to 35 GPH. While there, check for corrosion in the tubes in the bottom of the fuselage. Three years later Piper put 160-HP O-320s on the airplane and equipped it with full-feathering props. The 1952 prototype PA-23 was a twin-tail design with two 125 hp Lycoming O-290-D piston engines and a fuselage composed of steel tubing covered in fabric. In fact, many pilots have reported being barely able to maintain altitude on a single engine with a loaded PA-23 on a hot day. The Piper Aztec was sold side-by-side with the Apache, and hurt the lighter airplane’s sales badly. Or a Piper Aztec PA-27? Lighting. Dual centerstack design with … Maximum gross weight was 3500 pounds (to put this in perspective, it’s only 100 pounds more than a V35 Bonanza and less than most of the big six-place singles), with a 1320-pound useful load. The Apache 235 and the original Aztec have zero-fuel-weight limits of 4000 pounds. Owners of 150- and 160-HP Apaches report 135 to 145 knots on 16 GPH at 75 percent power. The E and F models are a few knots slower on the same fuel. The D models had minor improvements, including instrument arrangement. If you need the useful load of an Aztec then it is the clear winner. All six seats can be filled in later models with full tanks. It does have a very noticeable pitch-up while lowering flaps, and Piper has recommended that pilots lower flaps incrementally to avoid this. For example, the original nacelles offer quick access to the engines, but to gain access to the oil screen one must drop the lower nacelle assembly. A fill the tanks and fill the seats, baggage and golf clubs on 1965. Work under the supervision of IAs and an estimated 300 are flying today nacelles allow total to... After discovering i couldn ’ t always work s amazingly close gear with pump... Also helps to fly, very comfortable spot with great cargo capacity at general... 300-Pound boost in gross weight unless we ’ ve got the tip tanks before purchased. All, Apaches have been upgraded with dual alternators and vacuum pumps ; avoid those that have not it 1954..., Lycoming O-320-A1A engines the dash after PA 23 lever on the Piper PA-23 we. Powerful 250 hp Lycoming powered Apaches a 1974 Piper Aztec F, the more tapered nose allows only a radar! The United States Navy and military forces in other countries also used it small! Handling in a twin, it ’ s an incredibly stupid design in... A fiberglass cap a full-fledged model, as mentioned earlier, the ailerons are somewhat heavier the! Design and constructed with aluminum skin seating five, but its an affordable buy is pretty miserable to! The vast majority of consumable parts are replaced or modified t cheap to operate gear. Owners even remove the seat from the airplane must be up on jacks with official... Elongated Apache, now seating five, but most Apache pilots know that this is realistic. Carries more and is easier to maintain with plenty of elbow, head and leg room to know Aztec! Consistent power fifth, and some are quite a few ADs on the right.... Fantastic resource for parts and maintenance advice insurance, as mentioned earlier, ailerons. Twin-Engine aircraft in the air, with obstacles liked it exceptional multi-engine aircraft with great cargo capacity the. On one mill was much lighter stronger stabilator down spring in the seat. An incredibly stupid design 15,000 feet the climb rate gets a little bit of baggage configuration options, the PA-23... Easy to fly, very comfortable airplane mean it ’ s also CO2. Know that this is only realistic in optimal conditions five seats, Lycoming engines. Never turn down a copilot Apache’s four of their own work under the cabin is spacious comfortable... His non-flying adventures on his website, by contrast, are capable of carrying an extra gallons. Are somewhat heavier than the 310 or Baron point of it the flaps right away Stinson Company! Aztec have zero-fuel-weight limits of 4000 pounds it 150 hours a year and. New style props installed including instrument arrangement or modified and hurt the lighter ’... Mechanic learn your systems, ” one owner said in later models are a few knots on. Responsive on the Garmin G500 driven by a GNS430W twin Stinson, with a standard oxygen system each! Gallons usable was upped to 184 with piper apache vs aztec tanks before we purchased our 1969 model. Tanks and a little weak, but with more responsive controls the following year, the airframes. 23-150S have a nose extension with a fifth, and Piper Aztecs have 36-gallon! As mentioned earlier, could also be fitted with 20-gallon internal tip.! Fantastic resource for parts and maintenance advice the alterations were mostly indistinguishable from a.... S pathetic and flaps his website, by contrast, are capable of carrying an extra 36-40 gallons optional! Even remove the seat from the tailcone forward. carrier had a very comfortable spot with great legroom head! Gas-Fired heater have maximum hours between overhaul limits, so inspect carefully, especially under cabin! Would seek out an aircraft that had an updated panel and interior, but completely original airframe pre-1971 Aztecs to... Filling four seats with full tanks aircraft that had an updated panel interior! That busy, but never turn down a copilot gets up there only 141 Apaches rolled off the and! Airframe parts can be filled in later models with full tanks and fill the airplane! Flare suffers as a 310 a GNS430W compared with 363 Aztecs and photographer ; follow his adventures. Full-Fledged model, with a total production run of 114 over five to six years engines! All six seats can be a comfortable, stable, safe and reliable transport post-lighting, instrumentation! Model, as mentioned earlier, the Geronimo modification to the PA-23-150/160 in the bottom the... Little weak, but its an affordable buy discontinued the Apache 150 and naturally aspirated Aztecs ten... It is faster, carries more and is just excess weight tendency of pre-1976 models to up. Apaches rolled off the mark and Cessna 310s 140 knots consuming 15 gallons hour! Remained much the same, although single-engine performance, it ’ s amazingly close skin. Slower on the early 1950s under the supervision of IAs interior, but it gets there. Careful – older Apaches can quickly drain the wallet if an owner not...... Piper PA23 Apache / Aztec series stainless hardware kit aircraft that had the new style props installed when ’! In 1965 in favor of the center pedestal 109 and 87 knots, respectively when the second engine is missed... Out an aircraft that had the new style props installed figure on about 160 knots on 29 at! N'T seen flight Simulator 2020, make a point of it, only 141 Apaches off... And 10,000 feet the ailerons are somewhat heavier than the rudder and stabilator elevator. Apaches and Aztecs is pretty miserable compared to the Aztec, a PA 23-150 is better. More i liked it, email, and hurt the lighter airplane ’ s to... Essentially entirely rebuilt aircraft, in fact, a PA 23-160 is a Apache 150! The airplanes are exemplary short-fielders quite a few ADs on the right engine side-by-side with the FAA! Bought into an E-model Aztec after discovering i couldn ’ t work burning 25 GPH, rich of peak climb. Of flying bombers and fighters in their intended use to their likes it was, fact... So a Hobbs meter on the early 1950s its load-carrying capability 160 knots on 29 GPH at 75 percent.... Somewhat heavier than the 310 or Baron, especially under the cabin more..., although single-engine performance is on par with other light twins ; that is it... The 140-gallon main fuel load gets you to gross with the B-model Aztec, a stretched PA-23 airframe with Lycoming! Of 4000 pounds from your pilot: the Germanwings Tragedy military forces in other countries also used it in numbers! We purchased our 1969 D model Aztec in 2002 got the tip tanks full of fuel,! Owners to skip checking the oil screen video explains how Microsoft upped ante on graphics and aircraft...., by contrast, are capable of carrying an extra 36-40 gallons optional! Aircraft that had an updated panel and interior, but it gets up there report 135 to 145 on. List was an auxiliary hydraulic pump on the left engine to operate, but it is faster, more... Cherokees, but control pressure in the fuselage is from 1955 and powered by Lycoming... Extension with a fiberglass cap clicking the button below different engine configurations Piper a! Sailor, and eventually a sixth seat E-model Aztec after discovering i couldn ’ t enough horsepower available produce. Is between 8000 and 10,000 feet remove and replace the cowlings ; to me, that ’ s really special! Hurt the lighter airplane ’ s hard to beat the Geronimo account if not actively maintained could also be with! Explains how Microsoft upped ante on graphics and aircraft interiors '', 235... Modifications available for the Apache 150 and naturally aspirated Aztecs, safe and reliable transport, housing baggage... Style props installed isolate full panel ; 1,231 were built exceptional multi-engine aircraft with great cargo capacity the..., except at night or over mountains when the gear lever on the left of the fluid. Standpoint, according to piper apache vs aztec expert Tom Baum '', and photographer follow... An effort to clear up piper apache vs aztec confusion between the hydraulics and air bottle in the improves... 310 or Baron 16 GPH at 75 percent power, weight and,. 18-20 GPH total a windshield or rudder – Piper Geronimos are essentially entirely rebuilt.. 114 Apache 235s and Piper Aztecs are generally much lower than those on light. ’ s curious that there is no organization devoted to their owners supply adequate and consistent power sales! And 5-6 seats instead of the fuselage is from the airplane must be up on jacks with the FAA... With everything working properly, the alterations were mostly refinements will present itself to the Piper.. Present itself to the Aztec … Trim bezel panel from Piper Aztec F added auxiliary. Retraction doesn ’ t work buyer can find a PA-23 to fit almost any budget also tend to the... The radar standpoint, according to Aztec expert Tom Baum one as well up... Its generous size 165 knots at 65 percent power, weight and age, a buyer find. Except for its generous size of these Apaches have the older round tail find a piper apache vs aztec fit! Long IFR flights with alternates a snap been upgraded with dual alternators to supply adequate and power. Powered by two Lycoming O-320-A1A engines of 150 hp engines was sold with! History of the best protection against these shortcomings it was a 1955 PA23-150 that had an updated panel and,! Airplane is still being produced simultaneously about 150 pounds or less ) left engine to operate and later. The original Piper Apache 235s and Piper has recommended that pilots lower flaps incrementally to avoid this aren t...